Harlequins/ Tom Williams/ Dean Richards the saga
August 16, 2009 by Will Carling
Comments (15)
So it is now out in the open that Tom Williams was cut. OK, he was cut to cover the fake blood capsule, so it is nothing new in my eyes, Quins have been caught for cheating and this is just the uncovering of Quins attempt to cover it up!! There is actually no new news here, just further investigation into an already guilty party.
Am I alone in thinking that the rugby world is getting quite hysterical about this incident, or is all this melodramatic ranting in the media entirely justified?
Do any of us think this is the first time that a player/ coach / club has cheated in rugby? Do we really naively believe that rugby is played and coached and refereed by such bloody good blokes that this sort of thing is unthinkable and simply can not have happened before? If so, get a bloody life!
I am not for a minute saying it is right, but what I am saying is this is no where near the first time and yet by many people's fanatical reaction you would have thought someone had just shot the second coming of Christ!
Every time a prop has conveniently limped off to ensure uncontested scrums, that has been a bona fide injury - but of course! I think we all know the truth, and yet those instances could not be proved, and were not in games that were as close of covered in the manner that the Harlequins V Leinster game was.
Let me make one thing clear, I am not agreeing with what Quins did that day, it was wrong, pure and simple, but what I am saying is that it has been happening uncommented upon for many years and will continue to do so. What I am beginning to find unacceptable is the witch hunt that is ensuing following on from the punishment handed out to Quins.
The player Tom Williams should be banned for a number of games, that is all, and he should not have been used as a pawn in the game to force the hand of the club. Those who run the game and oversee the punishment of misdemeanors should be big enough and strong enough to do that themselves. The Club should be fined and have a far larger fine hanging over their head of they are found to be guilty of the same crime again.
Matter closed.
Instead we are facing the prospect of more intimate details of what exactly happened that day being made public, and I am not sure for what reason? For the gossips to sit over pints and mutter 'not in my day', for members of the press to pretend that they are shocked and appalled and everyone involved should be impeached and castrated? or just for more bloody column inches.....
It is done, we know enough of what happened, and that should be the end of it. I know I am biased, but Dean Richards is and will continue to be a very powerful and successful coach, and i do not want to see his reputation shredded for the enjoyment of 'grey men' who have never put their balls on the line and attempted anything but love to lurk in the shadows and snipe at men who happen to fail every now and then, who happen to make mistakes, which are then blown up to such a degree that we then forget all the achievements that they have made in the first place. In my mind he is a great player, a really great man and a bloody bloody good coach. Yes he made a bad call, but he made it in the pursuit of winning. He crossed the line, and that is wrong, but maybe this is just me, but I would always chose to hang around with, play alongside guys that were willing to cross that line, who had the balls and the backbone to cross that line in the pursuit of success, rather than the ones who crap themselves at the very sight of it!
Bloodywinkgate
Deano should have said to Tom Williams, "Whatever you do DON'T wink."
HTOrange 349 days ago
The bottom line - he / the club got caught cheating and now they have to suck up the consequences. Don't push the blame eslewhere. Do look back at how good a coach / player he's been but this now makes me wonder just how many times he has done this which in my opinion tarnishes everything he's ever achieved.
I disagree with you on this. I'd much rather play with a 100% clean player who pushes the limits of the law when playing (say a Richie McCaw or Martyn Williams - and no I don't know if they've ever cheated) than play with a known cheat! Compare this to the Dwain Chambers hysteria - are you also saying you'd rather play with him because he "cheated".
We can't have it both ways.
Stuart Dyckhoff 349 days ago
As you've played at the highest level Will, I'll have to accept what your saying is true ref the cheating and how its always gone on. Speaking as a supported I don't like to think that anyones cheating, but I'm not so stupid as to not realise it goes on...in any sport. And like nearly all sports cheating is dealt with and that should be the end of it.
But my theory on your comments that we're 'facing the prospect of more intimate details' coming out is simply that Rugby is getting a higher profile year on year....more and more money envolved in the game (something that has concerned me and been subject of a few threads) and thats exactly why we're getting this shit. Its more news worthy now than it was even in your playing days. I have more friends interested in Rugby now than I ever had. I don't mean new friends through Rugby...I mean people like me who have only starting enjoying watching Rugby for the last few years...particulary since England won the world cup.
Anyway thats why I think its being dragged out...it is the media...it is about money....its a professional (??) game now after all ;-)
jaffajeff 349 days ago
I cant agree with you Will (maybe some Quins rose-tinted specs on?).
This was a shocking piece of cheating and the right response should have been to own up, confess all and take the rap once they had been caught. If they had done this then I am sure the thing would have been done and dusted by now and much more appropriate punishments handed out. So they shouldnt have done it in the first place but once they had been caugt out, they should have manned up and taken the rap. I think covering it up and the lies and the steps they took to conceal it were in fact much worse than the original offence.
Paparazzi Phil 349 days ago
In your comments Will, perhaps we are beginning to see the difference of attitude between the proffesional elite and the vast majoity of other rugby players and fans. I truly hope that isn't so because I believe that would signal the beginning of the end of all that is good in our sport.
We all want to see our teams compete 'on the edge', and any of us that have played have 'bent' the rules and we have all accepted our punishment when caught doing so. What Deano and Quinns did went far beyond that, and all involved deserve all that comes their way, including being expelled from this years Heineken Cup.
It is only human nature to put our heroes on pedestals, and when they fall off it hurts us as well as them. They always are remembered for the bad and never the good. As mentioned above, Deano's actions at Quinns bring into doubt all he has achieved before and he will never be regarded with the same admiration as before.
We need independant doctors at every game from now on to verify blood injuries, and as many front row replacements as it takes to prevent uncontested scrums. Will it happen? Probably not, and almost certainly not whilst senior figures in the game do nothing about it. It's not enough to say it goes on and has always gone on therefore nothing should or can be done. This mind set can be changed, and the pressure to change it should be coming from the likes of yourself and all other senior figures in the sport. Anything less smacks of hypocracy.
Tightheadsrool 348 days ago
I have to agree with you there Phil.
Whatever happens at today's appeal hearing, even if an initial cover-up is now admitted, the sanctions imposed should be proportionate. It should see Tom Williams have a significant reduction in the length of his ban and sanctions imposed on any others involved.
The level of sanctions to be imposed on Harlequins will come down to how the panel feel the club failed to initially undertake an investigation and how complicit they were facilitating the cover-up at the previous hearing. The club has attempted to minimise the level of those sanctions by apologising to ERC and Leinster and undertaking a full review of procedures and ethics. But, will this be enough to avoid a HC ban. Such a ban would result in a severe financial penalty, season ticket refunds, loss of ticket sales and settling a huge legal bill. The total cost could rise to £1.5m and along with the loss of Dean Richards, the club would struggle to recover, both on and off the field. I feel such a sanction would be disproportionate. I realise that the club has to accept responsibility for the actions of its players and employees, but, should it incur such a penalty for something that it was not directly involved in?
The original fine of £215,000 is appropriate as it would amount to a 1/4 of HC pool game ticket sales or looking at it another way, loss of any profit from those games.
jamesb4 348 days ago
"Do any of us think this is the first time that a player/ coach / club has cheated in rugby?"
Oh well then, that's alright ... it's happening all over the place. No problem.
I honestly don't think you believe what you've written, Will. Either that, or what you've said about the ethos of the game in the last 2 years since I've been on the site has been a total crock, and I don't think that's the case.
"I would always chose to hang around with, play alongside guys that were willing to cross that line, who had the balls and the backbone to cross that line in the pursuit of success, rather than the ones who crap themselves at the very sight of it!"
The inference here is that winning cheats are braver than those who lose fairly because they pull back from the line. Again, I don't believe you feel this way. If you do, then you shouldn't have been captain of the England rugby team.
I stopped following cycling a long time ago, because of the drugs scandals. The cheating carried out, in a systematic and premeditated way, by Harlequins, is just as bad as that carried out by Lloyd Flandis, or the entire Finnish cross-country skiing team a few years ago. And you can't have it both ways: either rugby IS a man's sport, where you take the knocks, dish them out and then have a beer afterwards, as equals, no matter what the result, or it isn't. The camaraderie and quasi-moral code that rugby has is under threat if your equanimous attitude is prevalent.
I choose to see your blog post as an aberration; you've written so many, many fine words about the high standards that you believe in, and you've put your own credibility on the line in the process, both whilst a player and now as a 'key influence' and, yes, legend, that I think Docker's probably right about those rose-tinted glasses. At least I hope so.
Guy Harris 348 days ago
I side with Phil and Guy on this Will.
No matter how great the guy and the club is you can’t condone cheating. The fact that it goes on elsewhere does not make it right. You are going down the road of, because others cheat then it is OK for us to do so, and I am not sure you mean that.
Stupid thing is, if Williams limped off the field feigning injury then nobody would have complained, the fact that he came off for a supposed blood injury, thus allowing a temporary replacement by a player who had already been subbed off and who may have been able to kick a winning drop goal and now head are rolling.
Quins had already played their replacement cards and were still unable to win the game so resorted to gamesmanship to try and win. What this really shows is that the substitutions rulings really need to be looked at again. Have we really made the game better by allowing so many subs? Have we really made the game better by the temporary blood replacement sub?
Peter L 348 days ago
fair points one and all - and yes Philip I know I am wearing Quins tinted glasses. A few answers though; Firstly I am not condoning the cheating, as I said in the article it is wrong, it was wrong, end of. What I am sick of is the hysteria that is surrounding it, as though this is the first time it has ever happended and that somehow the soul of the game has been slain!
It is also a touch naive to think that in the pusuit of victory / winning, the boundaries are never knowingly crossed by one and all ! Come on guys!! I am not saying that they are frequently, or even planned, but I would be lying if I did not say that I have not crossed the line in the heat of a game and done things that I would never normally do, I have. That is life, we are all flawed, and I am slightly amazed that some of you lot are surprised?
And lastly Guy, I think you have read the tone of the article as one of agreement with cheating, and that is not my intention. As said above here, I do not agree with cold calculated cheating, and for that Quins deserve to be punished. I am pissed off with the saintliness of some who have commented on the debacle however, and as for crossing the line, again I am not into playing in teams that are full of cheats, far from it, but I am into playing in teams with guys who are willing to cross the line, more in physical terms and looking after teams mates than pushing the laws, but often it is the same mentality of guy. I am into guys who in the heat of a game have the instinct to win, the balls to fight, not men who cower at the thought. I hope that makes more sense? Not cheats, but guys who do push the laws, and occiasionally cross the line- in the heat of battle though.
I love the game and I love the ethos that goes with it, more than anything, I just get pissed off with sanctamonious gits who pontificate about situations they have never been in and emotions they will never experience!
Not that I feel strongly about it!!
Will Carling 348 days ago
It is one thing commenting on the occurance and all else that is in the public domain but I get amused by the people who state for example " It should see Tom Williams have a significant reduction in the length of his ban and sanctions imposed on any others involved" when probably jamesb4 above may to know little of the actual facts.
The Telegraph came out with the specific that TW was cut with a scalpel after the game - to have general views such as WDC's is fine but to make specific recomendations when it is not known who cut TW's mouth is a bit rich.
The problem I have is the legal position of ERC who appointed an independant tribunal to come up with a verdict and appropriate sentence(s) after prosecution. I can understand (TW & ERC) having the right to appeal against the sentences handed out but I find it difficult to understand how they can appeal against the complete findings of the independent tribunal which they (ERC) appointed. Would one, if asked be happy to work for ERC as an independent lawyer at a hearing knowing that there is a possibility of all your findings being ignored and chucked out. I would have thought that the only way ERC could arrive at another hearing essentially by chucking out the first would be by first of all taking their independently appointed tribunal to court for handling their case either in law incorrectly or through misconduct.
ddfmd 348 days ago
I think there's a lot of naive claptrap being spouted on this one.
Here's what I wrote on the "Tom Williams - my inside mouth was cut" thread which pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject -
<blockquote>I'm with Soutie on this one. I think it has got completely out of hand.
If newspaper reports are to be believed then this kind of thing (faking blood injuries) is as widespread as it was 2000 years ago when Livia (Emperor Tiberias' wife) gave the gladiators a pre-bout bollocking for the use of bladders filled with pig's blood (at least according to the BBC's version of Robert Graves "I Claudius").
What is needed is not this pathetic witch-hunt but an overhaul of the procedures.
When a player comes off for blood the blood-injury team should make an immediate decision if they want a blood substitute or a normal substitution. If they want a blood substitute then (provided the player is not seriously injured) a blood-injury official armed with a hosepipe and a bucket of water should sluice the affected area with water to clear the immediate blood and request the blood-injury's team's physio to indicate the wound to the official.
If the physio fails to identify the wound which is the alleged source of the blood then it should be a red card offence and the substituted player removed from the pitch. If the physio successfully identifies the wound then he should be given a set amount of time to staunch the flow and patch up the player such that he can come back onto the pitch.
If this common sense process was in place then nonsense like this would stop.</blockquote>
BrianT 347 days ago
Sorry Will but I cannot agree totally with you. I am saddened that this incident has happened as much as the Bath incident and the drug taking that seems to be dragging rugby down.
Maybe it is a symptom of Pro Rugby and now that there are no longer any of the old guard playing who bridged the amateur and pro eras it is naive of us 'fans' to think that the notion of rugby as a 'Hard' but 'Fair' game played by honourable men is no longer a reality.
Having said that 3 years is harsh for one of the greatest players and coaches of his era, but it is sadder that they felt they had to stoop, no pun intended, to that level to win a game.
peterugby 347 days ago
I'm surprised that with the "cutting" incident that the Muhammed Ali and Henry Cooper fight hasn't been brought back out of the shadows just to show us that this type of thing has been going on for donkey's years. As with all media cover, it just comes down to how long they can get away with spinning it out. It's the old "dog in the playground" scenario, there's nothing else worth talking about (except worldwide killing of innocent people, bombs, child abductors etc, etc) that hasn't been heard before, so let's go with this!
TippyToes 346 days ago
Very well said, Will! And totally agree with the point you made about props walking off the pitch to ensure uncontested scrums -- it happened so many times and yet no one ever made such a big deal out of it! All in all much ado for nothing really -- sad! :(
Liv 340 days ago
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13eastie
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First, re. Dean Richards and Grey Men, you are spot-on. The man's contribution to the game is seemingly, either readily or conveniently, forgotten by many.
Second, In the light of your comment concerning hysteria, perhaps we also should not forget your own recent speculation:
The inference would have to be that there was a knife on the pitch, which is, after all, where we all saw the "blood".
In a case where there has already been rather too much Jeffrey Archer and too little George Washington, nobody (least of all Deano) needed a Piers Morgan to throw his hat into the ring...
13eastie 349 days ago